Record of the Minutes of the Meeting of the dlFriends of Nutsford Vale on 4th July, 2018 at the Bluebell Inn

Attendees:  Cllr. Suzanne Richards, Cllr. Bernard Stone, Barrie Edge, Rita Edge, Barbara Moore, Maureen Riding, Mavis Holt, John Prunty, Christine Prunty, Ally Fogg, Alan Gibson, Steve Cree, Mark Lucas, Roz Janes, Laura Collier, Claire James, Danny Heathcote, Bernie Cree
Apologies:  Finola McGrath

Welcome:
Rita opened the meeting by thanking everyone for turning up including our two brave Councillors for coming.
Rita had already had a word with Suzanne about the maintenance of the Vale before the meeting had officially started.  She said that we had a new Contractor as Continental Landscape had lost the contract.  Rita said she was trying to find out who the new one was and when they were scheduled to come onto the Vale.  We do a litter pick on the first Wednesday of the month and on Tuesday night Rita went onto the Vale to check the litter.  The bins had been emptied and a litter pick carried out by the Contractors.  Rita picked up the few bits there but the litter pick for Wednesday morning was cancelled.
Suzanne asked whether or not the Council had been in touch with us to talk about any arrangements.  We said "No".  Bernard said the only thing he had back was the decision of the Secretary of State which he had actually had to ask for.  The Group said they had had this letter.  Bernard said in some ways he was not that bothered he had not heard anything and the Group knew what he meant.  John said he feels that the Council have been made the fall guys for the Government.  They are devolving the responsibility to the Council, if anything goes wrong it is nothing to do with the Government.  Bernard said that he and Suzanne had opposed the school build all the way through the process.  They supported the referral to the Secretary of State and they were both as disappointed as the Friends when it came back it was nothing to do with the Government.  Suzanne said she would have expected some conversations to have started between the Council and the Friends Group by now in terms of what is going to happen moving forwards and give us some idea of timetables.  She said a few of the group and councillors had had the meeting before the planning process with Lufthner and we talked about what the deal was going to come from the Contractors in terms of their work with the Friends Group.  She also said they should be asking as local councillors what guarentees would be put in place for the remainder of the Vale, putting that into a secure position so then there is no further development beyond the school site.  Bernie said that is what the Group wants as obviously we go on and help with the maintenance and litter picking and then we think to ourselves why should we do that as we are not getting anything out of it.  Bernard agreed with Suzanne.  Bernard said as far as he is concerned the more it is delayed the better and he is not going to be pushing for it to be built but we need guarantees as it is "airy fairy" what has been promised.  Ally said that what was in the Planning "minded to approve" we do not know whether or not Laing O'Rourke have solutions to them yet.  Bernard said the "minded to approve" is now approved.  Laura asked if questions what had been raised by yourselves and other Councillors in the planning meeting had been addressed.  Suzanne thought Cllr. Paul's intervention was particularly helpful around the permeability of the streets in the surrounding area and she said she would ask him for an update on that.  She said she had been expecting something back.  Bernard said he had asked about the traffic management plan which he has not had anything back about yet as they had promised traffic calming, bicycles etc.  Suzanne is going to be pushing for that.
Steve asked Suzanne if she was confident that the Council would actually inform her as he highlighted what had happened to the Ardwick councillor over the Dean Trust School as she hadn't been informed what had been going on at the site previously to that school build.  Suzanne said she would hope so as Councillor Rahman had responsibility for schools and as he is one of the Lonsight Councillors the Vale now falls under his area.  She said we should now pull Councillor Rahman more firmly into these discussions so we have got some accountability from the Exec Member.  Rita said we were still waiting for his anwers from the October meeting last year.  Steve said he also did say in that Scruitiny meeting that he would not build a school on something that proved to be unsafe but he is still going to do it.  Suzanne and Bernard said that they have a different view from them.  Bernard said as it is approved now we need to get guarantees and promises around things that were brought up in planning and the future of what is left.
Suzanne said we needed a single point of contact for the Group so if we have questions as they arise we have a Council Officer we can go to.  She addes that as Councillors we find it difficult to find the right person and up to now communication has been very poor.   Alan mentioned the possiblility of compensation because of loss of environment and accidents they have on site and this is about £15,000,000.  Under the legislation they have for all planning applications after the 16th May, 2017 this now is the responsibility of Manchester City Council and we wrote to Joanne Roney about this and she now says she doesn't think any compensation will be the responsiblity of Manchester City Council so we have further letters to write on that matter.  Bernard said what was the compensation for.  Alan said compensation for loss of environmental value estimated at £10,000,000 and also for the known overrun cost of the school in Stockport on a similar site which was £4,000,000 and any other accidents that may happen.  There is gas there, poisonous dust, flooding.  The minimum value of that compensation is £15,000,000.  The developers have not put up a preformance bond.  They can simply walk away.  They live in a tax haven in Cyprus.
John said originally they were going to send all the toxic material in sealed containers away from the site to be processed but now apparently they were going to do it on site so he has been told.  Bernard asked who had said this as they had not heard that as they had heard nothing about what was going to happen during the process.  He asked for an email or a letter about this.  Rita said the only thing we have heard is that the waste is going to be taken away but one of the problems was that they did not have anywhere where they could actually take it as there is nowhere registered to take it.  Alan said they will then have to treat it on site.  Alan said they will have to build a chemical processing plant on site.  Ally said at the consultations the contractors have said if this happens they will do this, no they will do that and it has been constantly changing.  Suzanne stressed that this is the reason we need a single point of contact.  Ally said most of the way through they have said they will not be removing any materials off site as in Telford there was a massive environmental catastrophe years ago and they stopped moving toxic waste around after this for safety purposes.  Late in the day they said they could move it so it looks like they haven't decided yet.  Ally said the reason they have not put any compensation aside is that they have convinced themselves it is perfectly safe to build.  That is what they think.  Alan said that the Council as a competant authority has a duty to make sure about compensation.  Ally said if the worse came to the worse they would find £50,000,000+ of taxpayer's money to pay out in compensation.  Alan said that is a £100 for one year for every person.
Rita said we wrote to the Council and asked about the Environmental Impact Assessment and the reply was that they did not need to do one as it is only local people who are going to be affected.  Barrie said the decision concerning that was based on a document apparently released by them (we don't know by who).  Bernie said she doesn't remember it but that much has been sent its not surprising.  Rita said this is an EU regulation that they should do and EIA but they said they did not need to do it as it is only us going to be affected so it doesn't matter if we get poisoned, drown or blown up.  John said a person who died of oesophical cancer lived alongside that tip aged 41 and also others.  We also wrote to Afzal Khan MP with a copy of the email but he just sent it back.  Ally said they are probably not obliged to do it.  
Mark said there was an article on the BBC today linking the death of a young girl with Air Pollution.  The spikes in Air Pollution exactly matched when she had severe attacks.  Bernard said this is his big concern about the traffic.  Alan said Manchester is the fifth worst city in the United Kingdom.  Alan said he wants a small school for 300 pupils at the Belle Vue Cinema site and that will solve all of the problems mentioned.  Suzanne said she knew the Council would have loved to acquire the Belle Vue Cinema site but unfortunately it is an American Company who owns it.  
Rita said the Greater Manchester Spacial Framework has been deferred until Autumn due to a lower need for housing.  Suzanne said they were waiting until Autumn for the new Population forecast.  They have revised them down.  Bernard spoke to Amanda Corcoran and she still says they need the school places.  Rita said that they actually said they could put children into schools that had vacancies and they would only have a short fall of 200.  Bernard said they have increased the number of places at quite a number of schools but they still say they need the new school.  Barrie said they are towing the party line and not challenging anything.  Ally said there is less Eastern European migration and many with young children are going back home.  Suzanne said the city is still growing but maybe not as fast as they anticipated.  Bernard mentioned that a couple of years ago Cedar mount was 2/3rds empty next September the school will be full.  Bernie said she had been told by a reliable source that migrants had been brought into the school recently.  Bernard said the school had been in special measures for a number of years but the new head teacher has made a vast difference there.  They are not in special measures, results are going up and it is becoming a more popular school.  Rita said they came 3044th out of 3133 seconday schools and that was in the newspaper this week.  This was the National Table for Schools throughout the Country.  Bernard said it is improving.  John said Spurley Hey was a poor school with a poor reputation, Cedar Mount is a poor school with a poor reputation and they are putting another school on the same site basically.  What makes them think it is going to be any different. They can't keep the staff at Cedar Mount - what makes them think they can keep them at that one.  Bernard said that traditionally they lost staff every year but this year the only staff they have lost is to staff being promoted to other schools.  No staff is leaving in two weeks time at the end of term that is just fed up of the school.  That shows also that the school is improving.  Alan said money should go into the teachers and teaching assistants.  Suzanne said that is an argument to have with Government around school funding.  Rita said they have the perfect site of the Peacock Centre given by the Peacock family to the people of Gorton for Educational purposes under a covenant that still runs until 2021.  They are going to build houses on it.  All the facilities are there.  When we did the walk around on the Vale Rita suggested it and was told it did not belong to Manchester City Council but it has a big sign on the front saying Manchester City Council.  Bernard said that land is owned by the Council.
Ally asked if we could mention to Suzanne and Bernard about the other site that was discussed at the meeting in June.  Ally told them that one of the conversations we are having at the moment that is in its very early stages is as and when the school build starts we want to reclaim the Landcare site.  Rita explained landcare wants to keep it as a green space with the help of the Community.  Suzanne said we need as a group to decide when we sit down with the Council what our very clear asks are.  Ally said if we could put in landscaped country paths, it would run from Belle Vue to the new school and make a lovely walk across the old Gore Brook.  Bernard said if you look at a map it is already there although it is overgrown at present.  Ally said we need to reclaim it and fence it off.
Steve mentioned the Mayfair Depot, Manchester and that the infrastructure is all there to build the school there.  It is linked to getting HS2 and Steve said the Londoners will be coming to take our jobs not the other way round.  
There was then a discussion about affordable housing and potholes. 
Steve said when the Bus Club was developed in planning it said the roads needed sorting but it was never done.  In the planning meeting for the school it said the infrastructure around the Vale need to be sorted but this will not get done and on planning for Mellands Fields one of the criteria was that the local park was Nutsford Vale.  Half of it is going and we do not know what is happening to the rest of it.  How can we trust whoever our point of contact will be when we have no confidence in anybody other than Suzanne, Bernard and Peter.  Suzanne said she could not comment on previous promises but we can ask questions.  As a group we should be asking for something in writing about what we are going to get.  Suzanne said we need it in writing so us as Councillors and you as a group can hold the Council to account.  Bernie said they are supposed to want Friends of groups but the way they have treated is not good.  She said she didn't mean the actual build as they say they need it but the way the group was treated from day one.  Mark says they rely on the Friends of groups to maintain etc and it is free labour for the Council.  Mark said why should we carry on doing it but it is because we care about our Area.  Bernard says the Friends of Nutsford Vale has made a big difference to our Community and it has not been appreciated.  The things that happen on Greenbank park would not happen without their Friends group ie the dog show which is highly successful and popular.
Rita said in December 2017 the Council launched the Parks Stategy and one of the things that was proposed was liability insurance that would be free to community and friends groups.  At the moment we have to pay for our own but the idea was we would all come under the umbrella of the Council but we have not been advised if this has been implemented or if it is still part of the plan.  Suzanne advised that it is Councillor Rahman's Strategy.  Rita said there is no point emailing him.  Bernard said they would find out about that.
Roz says she has been involved with an Arts Project about greenspaces and Nutsford Vale is included in this.  It has been noticed that Manchester's quiet spaces for everyone's physical and mental well being are disappearing.
Laura said what would it have to take for the Council to listen to the people that they are accountable to.  Bernard said we are here to represent you and we have done this throughout this process.  We will continue to get the best deal we can out of it and it is interesting about bringing the other part of the Vale into use.
Mark asked if anyone had seen Andy Burnham's green plan yet.  They are making the greenest city outside of London.
Bernie said Jenna and Ruth at the University are still involved with us after compiling the research about Nutsford Vale which was put forward as an objection to planning.  One of the group, Finola who can't be here tonight, has been doing a creative writing course and she got in touch with Jenna to see if she could coincide her coursework next term with the research.  Jenna was very happy with this and Finola met her.  She took with her photographs she had taken on the Vale with quotes of her thoughts added.  Jenna asked both Rita and Bernie for their "reflections" on how they felt the group's involvement in the research had gone up until now.  This is ongoing research which will be used by Mayor Andy Burnham about how older people use greenspace.
Steve asked Suzanne whether or not she thought planning was a farce as the architects had already opened an office in Manchester before it was granted to oversee Lytham Road Academy and Matthews Lane Academy.  Suzanne said planning is a quazi legal process so there has to be certain criteria that has to be met and they can turn things down.  Mark said at the consultations we felt as though they were rail roading things through and they were going to do it no matter what we were saying.  It started hitting the buffers when they started getting resistance from the group and that has why it has been delayed for eighteen months.  John said he was lied to by Laing O'Rouke when he asked them if that was the only drawing of the school build and they told him there was nothing else in existence at all, the Architect had just finished the drawing the night before.  Steve found a drawing of the build that was dated months before this which was exactly identical.  Bernard said they were very suprised when they went to one of the consultations and there was lots of detailed diagrams and they had been told it had not at that time got to that stage.
Laura wanted to know if the planning meeting was still available on line.  Suzanne said it was under Council Democracy and to look for the meeting date and it is all there.  The written record will be kept on the Council website but Suzanne is unsure how long they keep the webcam version.  Laura said there was questions asked that  had no answers.  Suzanne said she would go on the minutes of the following meeting and see if all the questions asked were in the minutes.  
Bernard and Suzanne left the meeting to a round of applause.
Steve asked how long we are giving Suzanne to find a contact for us.  Rita said Suzanne will get on with it as she is really consciencious about her job.   Bernie said before the next meeting hopefully it will be in place.
Gorton Carnival is on Sunday 8th July.  Some of us are helping out on the stall.  We are setting up at 10 am.  Steve asked when the rain and wind were coming as last year it was so windy we had to hold on to the marquee as a one point it nearly blew off.  Barrie asked how much to charge for the tombola tickets but we are keeping them at the same price as we have more than enough items still ticketed from last year which are stored in Rita's spare room.
Rita said at the moment we will have to see when the Contractors are doing the litter picks as it is useless us going on on the first Wednesday of the month if they have carried out a pick on the Tuesday and also the bags will be left there for a whole week.

Next Meeting:            1st August, 2018 @ 6.30pm    
                                         @ The Bluebell Inn, Levenshulme

Gorton Carnival:         Sunday 8th August, 2018
                                          Setting up from 10.00 am